>> Now we're talking about Christian Bok's Eunoia. Max, let's see that book. Can you tell us how it's organized? >> Yeah. There's five, well, there's five main chapters, one corresponding to each vowel. >> Excepting Y. >> A-e-i-o-u. Excepting Y. But he does have a chapter for Y words at the end. He has a little bit of, an appendix. >> Kind of a nod to Y. Yeah. So in chapter E, which is the one we're reading, what does he do, what does he must, what's his limit? >> He can only use, words with E as the vowel. >> Mm-hm. >> No other vowels are permitted. >> Okay, will you flip a few pages into the chapter and read two sentences randomly, chosen. >> Sure. >> Then the sled gets sent wherever the nemesis dwell. There the Greek pretenders pretend. The well-hewn steed represents the perfect present. >> Thank you Max. Well, anybody want to comment on what that sounds like? Emily? >> It sounds sort of astoundingly, like normal, unconstrained language. >> It really does? Okay. Can anyone hear the constraint? >> Ally? >> Yeah. I actually think that, when, when you were reading last, I kind of thought about the difference that you got to discern to the kind of visual difference between your reading in and hearing it. >>, And hearing it I think it's easier to kind of actually cancel out the symmetric meaning just because it just sound so melodic. >> How interesting you got into that point. Because this text, this text, the reason is what so important and I am what saying, she said this text tells a story, tells the story of Helen of Troy, it really tells us the story. These, there's, these sentences are not fragments, they're not paratactic. They're narrative. They, they work in order. The only constraint is that it's only E, and there's some other constraints we'll talk about. So this isn't language poetry. Is it rebelling from language poetry? Maybe. But it sort of underlies the difference between chapters 9.1 and 9.3. And what do you think the main difference is, Max? Well, here he's focusing more on sound, which may be the language poets weren't doing entirely. >> Well, I'm not so sure that's the way I would say, say it. Where is the experimentalism in language poetry? At what level does it take place? >> Well, we, we looked at a lot of works where it took place on the level of the sentence. >> It takes, it takes place on the level of the writing. >> Yeah. >> At the writing. >> Sure. >> Where does the experiment take place in, in soliloquy [crosstalk] ... >> Well, right. Here, it's more, it's more, I guess, conceptual [crosstalk] ... >> It just a level of the concept. And then the rest of it is working out. So the one constraint is, it's called a lipogram. It's actually a special version of lipogram. It's a univocal lipogram. A lipogram involves having to illuminate a letter. In this case, he eliminates all the vowels except for one in every case, in the case of every chapter. But there's some other limits. Each chapter has to contain a voyage. Each chapter has to contain a banquet. Each chapter has to contain an orgy. Each chapter must allude to the art of writing. And 98 percent of the words available must be used. >> Feat. Wow. So. >> Do we know how he arrived at 98%? >> I think he looked at all attention words that only have value he needs in it, and he decided I'm going to try to go all the way. And there is only a couple of words he doesn't use. What's a word we used to describe this feat, this writing feat, this artistic feat? >> Genius [laugh]. >> Genius? Virtuosity I think. Let me read the passage toward the beginning which is fulfilling his requirement of referring to the art of writing and you can comment on it. Here we go. Enfettered, these sentences repress free speech. The text deletes selected letters. The revered exegete. The exegete would be. Who's an exegete? What's an exegete? >> Someone who does exegesis. >> An exegesis is an interpretation, historically an interpreter of the Bible, but more generally an interpreter. And he's an interpreter rather than a writer. The revered exegete rejected metered verse, well we know that. He rebels. He sets new precedents. He lets cleverness exceed decent levels. He eschews esteemed genres. We sneer, when we detect the clever scheme. We jeer We jest. We express resentment. We detest these depthless pretenses. We prefer genteel speech where sense redeems senselessness. Okay, interpret any part of that, go. Amaris. >> I think what was interesting, cuz I saw him perform this, and I was able to then immerse myself more in the musical er, whatever, quality of it. And. >> What I, what I noted, interestingly enough, and I think Christian put comments on it as well, is that each vowel seems to have its own sensibility and attitude. So here, we see those words like resentment and pretentiousness come out, and in U, U is the most memorable to me, some sort of lewd [laugh] and irreverent, and in some way. >> Oo, oo, and O is open. And rounded. There's a psycho linguistics involved in Faust. There's no doubt that this is creating that. Ally, what else would you say about that meta writing passage? >> I mean, it kind of just seems like the platform of mod-po to me. Like. >> The platform of mod-po, meaning, the whole thing? >> I, it's very, it's very modern poet, I mean, you know. >> If there's something special. I, I, I don't mean to cut you off. You said something really profound. But I wanna jump right on it, and do something else. Notice that, at the end, he says, we prefer genteel speech, where sense redeems senselessness. This is not language poetry. This is not fragment. >> But I, but I couldn't tell if that sentence was ironic. >> Let's pause for a second that it's not ironic Because this has what? I get the story of Helen. >> Maybe it's the fact that he's able to write in complete sentences. >> He's telling the truth. >> With this. >> Was able to? I think he intended to. >> Exactly. >> He intended to tell a norm, normal narrative story with this severe limitation of the level of concept. Sense redeems senselessness. Now, that's not universally true the work of the great Christian Bok. He is very into sound poetry which is all sound sense rather than semantics sense. But in this case sense redeems senses. Its not clear how ironic that is, but there is something definitely going on. Let me ask, let me just ask you, for your comments on what the experience is like, of encounter of this remarkable text. >> Who wants to go first? Dave? >> My experience was similar to Amaris in that. Each letter, when I skimmed them, had a much different feel. Especially E, and especially during the battle scene at the end, a lot of, a lot of sharp sounds that really seem to mimic the battle that was taking place. >> So he's really thinking about sounds. >> It was really vivid. >> Yeah, okay. Molly, what did you think, encountering this? >> I was surprised that I didn't really notice the constraint, at first. I mean, it really felt so, so natural and so well put together. That itt was kind of shocking. >> Okay Max. >> It really is, kind of all inspiring. >> I think. >> Seven years to do this. Seven years. What does that make you think? >> Can you imagine, what do you imagine him doing for seven years? >> I imagine him generating this whole vocabulary and then bit by bit going through it, seeing what kind of sentences he can make, seeing what kind of story he can tell, what kind of characters emerge from the words he has. >> Remarkable. What does eunoia mean? Anybody know what the word eunoia means? >> Is it like true sound? Eu is true in Greek, isn't it? >> It's the shortest word in the English language to use all the vowels except for Y, and it means beautiful thinking. >> It was used by Aristotle to describe a state of mind that you need to be in, in order to make a friend. >> You. >> Oh. >> Know it. >> Wow. >> Uh-huh. >> Let me quote what Christian Bok has said about this work, and ask one or two of you, to comment, and then we'll wrap up. He writes that the text makes a [unknown] spectacle of its labor. Willfully crippling its language in order to show that even under such improbable conditions of duress, language can still express an uncanny, if not sublime thought. That's great, Emily? >> Yeah I, I, to put it sorta delicately I feel like a lot of the poets we have read have been beating the languages dead languages doesn't work horse, and it's nice to finally have someone say look it still works even crippled and sort of purposefully hindered, it is still a very capable system. >> It's essentially optimistic about language. >> Very optimistic, yeah. >> I think, is what you're saying, yeah. Language will survive. Even if pushed to its brink, we will be able to tell the story of Helen of Troy. That story that was told orally for a long time before it ever got written down. >> One of the most essential stories. All right, who wants the final word on this? Amaris? >> [laugh] >> What do you feel about encountering this? I, I think I may have already asked you this, but I want to hear it again. >> I mean it contrary to Emily's, I was more drawn in by the sound qualities of it, so my appreciation of it despite the fact of when Max read it, it had that sort of monotones quality to it. And I was like, oh wait I want all the vowels in there. [laugh]. Sorry Max.Um, but Christian really makes it come to life. [laugh]. It's the genious of, of I think his composition in this performance. >> I think no matter how. We're not going to attempt to bridge the difference between the two of you. >> Okay. >> It's a kind of an impossible thing. There'd be a gap in your friendship. And you need so eunoia. You know, a little bit of eunoia But I just want to. >> I'm working on it. >> But I just want to say one of the things that unites you, the two of you in thinking of, in praising this work, is to ponder that seven years of effort. That this is no, anything goes, you know. And I think that's true despite what Emily said, most of the poets live in counter. These are really, really virtuosic efforts this is sort of an extreme [unknown] version of it, but virtuosity is the, is the rule of this particular part of our
