Well, culture is knowledge about beliefs, values, ideas shared by people in a geographic region at a certain time. So culture is, by definition, anything that is cultural has to be shared so there is no cultural stuff that is not shared by peopleand relates to that knowledge that people have at a place and a time so it's something that evolves over time that changes from place to place. But even in a particular region, culture is not something that stays monolithic over time. It changes based on this knowledge that evolves. Well, culture, you know, it's not only knowledge but it's also something that gets represented in day-to-day things and things that surrounds us. And products and brands are things that we have a relationship with them all the time. So, culture also kind of connects to products and brands. What is cultural symbolism of a product and a brand? Well, it's when a product or a brand embodies the abstract characteristic of the culture, kind of the essence of what the culture is all about. If you think, for instance, you know, in U.S. culture, you think about breakfast cereal. I was trying to have breakfast this morning in the hotel and I couldn't find cereal. It's something that's very related to the traditions in that society. You know, in the morning, what you have is breakfast cereal with milk. Then, breakfast cereal becomes a product that's very symbolic of a lifestyle. And if you think about what's the meaning of breakfast cereal for American culture is breakfast that is easy to prepare, it's ready to go, it gives you energy quickly so you can go on with your life. It's very different to perhaps a different product and in another culture that it's less prone to that notion of emphasizing the importance of time. So that's in terms of products. Then brands that lean, that sells to this product, have a very good chance of also becoming very culturally symbolic because then they represent these products that are very much kind of embedded in the cultural network. Now when I say that culture is knowledge, then this knowledge is represented in memory and we use sometimes this analogy of a network in which you have kind of the main abstract concept, which is, let's say, American culture. You have it lean to a variety of things, concepts like independence, freedom, pursuing your own goals. One of the things that you also have in that network is then products and brands. These products that relate to the network because they enable the values that are important in the culture. They kind of connect or represent those values in a way that is easy to understand. And then brands that link to those products that embody those abstract characteristics, like again if you go back to American culture, independence, freedom, success. Then brands that embody those values in a way that is relevant for the people in the culture then become cultural symbols. They are magnets of meaning for those important values and people can then borrow those values through consumption, you know, aligning themselves with the brand, let them kind of propropriate those meanings. So that's kind of what's relevant about mostly symbolic, perhaps. In the Chinese context and, you know, I'm less familiar with Chinese culture than I am American culture, but you have certain products like if you think, for instance, Peking duck. It's something that's very in terms of food very traditionally Chinese. And so some other products that also connect, you know, like traditional clothing and also the things that are varied that connect you with kind of traditional values and Chinese culture. Then those products can also become cultural symbols in China and the same way happens with brands. You know, brands that then associate themselves with those important values, traditional values in Chinese culture can become culturally symbolic brands in the Chinese counties. Well, that's a very interesting question. And you know one thing about culture is that people have in their mind representations of different cultures. As I said culture is knowledge, knowledge that is shared about traditions, about values, about beliefs shared by people in different regions. But people here in China, of course they have knowledge for Chinese culture, but they also have knowledge about other cultures. It could be American culture, Western European culture, and interestingly what happens is that sometimes people align themselves with the values of their traditional culture but can also embrace the values of foreign cultures. And that's a phenomenon that's happening a lot in developing countries like China, India or Russia, that with development they are embracing more developed countries' values that typically are Western, more Western European values. And then these brands that symbolize these values from the West sometimes come to China or to India or to some developing economy and then find a group of consumers that want to align themselves with those products. So, sometimes those brands gonna need to make drastic changes. So if you think you know lots of brands for instance you think Louis Vuitton, you think Prada, this brand, they don't make too many changes because they are appealing to a target market which is the more upper-scale, highly educated, more embracing both Western values of cosmopolitanism and individualism and then if you are a brand like that you are going to China and guess what? The target market is very similar to the target market in Europe in the markets where they are operating right now. But when you are a mass market brand that's trying to appeal not only to the upper segment of the market in China, but to a broader population, let's say you are McDonald's, then you are appealing to a variety of people. Then there is where you need to make yourself more relevant to the Chinese values. And there is where the brand then needs to come to this market and try to adapt itself a bit. And sometimes you have brands that have a personality that is well aligned with the individualistic values of the West but they come to developing countries like Chinathat are more collectivistic. And then they try to adapt a little bit of their advertising strategy, their product mix, to make it more appealing to those more traditional collectivistic values. They might still preserve some of their, kind of, Western mystique because that makes them appealing to at least get the early adopters of the people who are more open to foreign goods. But then if they want to be mass market eventually, they can not just subsist appealing to that small group of people. They need to be a little bit more widely appealing and that's where you see their brand start to adapt themselves To be more like, more aligned with traditional values and Chinese culture. Well, you know, one of the trends with globalization is, and your question can be answered in two different ways and we see two from globalization forces we see two slightly different responses. You know, we see among some people a tendency to embrace these changes, to embrace this kind of cosmopolitanism, this more modernization. And then among some more highly educated consumers who are highly familiar with cultures from different parts of the world particularly developing cultures then what you see is this tendency to embrace these new things that can be merged with their traditional Chinese things and become something that is some sort of a fusion of the modernism in the West and kind of the emerging changes in China. But at the same time you see many countries, particularly you see this in the West, but you see it sometimes also in developing countries. You see a response that is a little bit sometimes like trying to reject that because that's contaminates at the local culture and people say well, up to a certain degree they can embrace this fusion of cultures but there is a point in which this becomes kind of threatening. So what happens is that it's not like culture is something that all the time is operating in a way that is predicting in one direction. Culture is very dynamic and the cultural knowledge that comes to mind in a particular situation is going to drive what you respond. So, in the upper scale more multi-cultural Chinese consumer there's going to be a tendency to embrace multiculturalism and then eventually you could argue that brands from different places are going to look very similar because they are going to be appealing to the same type of consumer. Then it doesn't matter where you are from. Then you are eventually going to try to align yourself with the same type of values. But that's not going to happen for all situations. There are going to be context in which even a Chinese consumer might want to connect himself with either a Chinese brand to make a point or to a more Western brand to exercise or to express an aspect of his personality. So these are things that are very dynamic. So I wouldn't say that, you know, 40 years from now consumers are just going to be appealing to the same brands and cultural meanings are not gonna have a place. I think cultures too gonna be important but what we we're gonna see is a more dynamic understanding of when cultural symbolism is more relevant when it's less relevant. Well, you know, with globalization China has changed dramatically. Well, the world has changed, you know, and when you see this course about globalization in the West this is very different to the way you see it here in the East. You know, right now in Europe or in the United States, right now there is the political elections in the United States, you see a lot of discussion about globalization and from the more developing countries' perspective globalization is something that has taken away from the developing world because the developed world is now playing a rolethat they didn't play before. It used to be that all products, all brands, everything came from developing countries and then developed economies were just importers of goods. But now what you see that with globalization, it's very blurred - the boundaries between, you know, where a brand is from or where it's made. And, you know, most products are made in the East, are made in China, made in India, made in Bangladesh, made in Korea and Taiwan. Yet products might still be from somewhere else but the products are physically made in this country and that has caused these economies to grow and prosper and to develop and with that their markets have also changed. You know the middle class in China is growing, with that education is growing, with that exposure to the world is growing and that's making China a more, a society that looks a little bit more like Western societies so then they open this door to globalization. In China is very optimistic then because the Chinese consumer, the Chinese market, has seen all the benefits of globalization. But you contrast that with what's happening right now in the United States where some people are talking about closing markets and trying to be more protectionist because what the developing economies have seen is the rise with globalization of the developed markets. So it is two sides of the different coin. From the Chinese perspective, I think there is still a lot of growth potential in China and then as the economy grows more people are going to join the middle class and then what they are going to see is a continued trend towards embracing [inaudible] and development and trying to enjoy products that you couldn't afford before that probably were more Western products. You know, you see consumption of beef for instance, consumption of pork, consumption of cheese, consumption of wine, consumption of more of, you know, more developed goods. It's growing drastically in China as a reflection of this embracing of tradition from foreign cultures based on having purchasing power. But at the same time you see that in some of these developed economies what you see then is some push toward protectionism, some push towards what we're losing in this globalized world because these other countries are benefiting. Well, I believe that that's just something that's been happening for many, many years and very hard to stop but you're going to see this dichotomy between globalization benefiting some but hurting some other people. Net for the Chinese market I think the prospect is more westernization, more embracing of modernization, individualism, and, you know, brands and products coming from all over the world. Well, you know, you see, one phenomenon that you see, one thing with culture is that culture is defined on multiple levels. As I said culture is knowledge and knowledge is very flexible and sometimes we refer to Chinese culture. Okay, that's one type of culture definitely. But we can think about at a broader level for instance, we can think about East Asian culture and we think about a cosmopolitan East Asia as some sort of emerging cultural understanding of what it means to be a consumer in a large East Asian city. That large East Asian city might be in Hong Kong, might be in China, Shanghai, could be Hangzhou, could be Taipei in Taiwan, could be Singapore. And what you see is a phenomenon in which all these cosmopolitan cities in East Asia are trying to embrace a similar type of lifestyle and then what you find is certain brands that try to appeal to that kind of East Asian cosmopolitan mindset. So to the extent that that with globalization cultures, at least in certain areas, to a certain degree are becoming a little bit more similar to each other. Then there is potential for brands from those regions to try to claim a space that appeals to that broader identity. So you think for instance you know Tiger Beer in Singapore. It's a brand that's trying to position itself, not as a Singaporian brand, but as a brand that appeals to all East Asian cosmopolitans. And you see that also in Singapore Airlines. It's kind of the brand for the successful business person. Where's that successful business person? Well, that successful business person could be in Singapore, could be in Taiwan, could be China, could be in Hong Kong. So you see that, but there's still an element of cultural meaning that the brand is trying to preserve. That is distinctive, you know, in terms of, could be in terms of the service, the attention to detail, the attention to connection to the consumer. That's not necessarily the same type of imagery that's relevant for our western society. You know, in East Asian societies that notion of being very close to you, service, pampering you to the ultimate level, something that's very, very important, very cultural. So these brands try to maintain that thread but making it more widely appealing so then over time what I think is going to be less important, the country where you're from, but the abstract meaning and how you align yourself with the evolving trends in the region of the world. And there are going to be different, there are different regions of the world that are emerging with commonality of meanings or commonality of cultural understanding. You know, East Asia, or you think Western Europe, Latin America. You know, what you see some sort of convergence in these different regions and then is where brands have the opportunity to align themselves with that broader theme and make it very relevant. Well, that's a very interesting question. You know, any product that by definition is better aligned with the West than it is with the East like, you know, wine is something that you don't think you like. Like wine from grapes, it's not something that you traditionally associate with Chinese products. Then something that Chinese consumers may not be fully accustomed to, then in those cases, perhaps a brand needs to start segmenting the market by going after those consumers who are more western friendly. And there is where perhaps you can emphasize more your Western rules. Your, if it's not about wine, then, you know, kind of the mystique that might be associated with this region of the United States. Of course, there's going to be a limit to how much you can grow with that position. But that might be kind of an easy way to start and then find out what's the adaptation that you need to make to make you more broadly appealing. So you think, for instance, right now one of the biggest growing market is not California wine. It's Bourbon whiskey, Jack Daniels. Their sales right now in China are fueling their growth and what their position is, well, their position is not very distinct to the position they have in the United States. You know, it's a traditional, well made bourbon whisky, you know, from Tennessee, and that makes it appealing to, kind of, the more western friendly Chinese consumers that as I said before they are growing in size. You know, as more people join the middle class and want to, kind of, embrace those modernized Western values. But if Jack Daniels wants to eventually grow broader then there's going to be a capto what you can accomplish with that positioning. Then that is where you might migrate to, kind of, a second version which is then to make yourself more appealing to a wider audience. But the first stage for a product that is more Western connected, that's a new word to the Chinese market, I would say it's trying to start first with those consumers that are very, kind of favorable to our Western values. And then you don't need to change too much. Just try to adapt your communication to kind of a little bit of the taste of the Chinese market, but you don't change too much who you are. Eventually as you grow then you might need to make your work widely appealing by embedding yourself more in the culture. So it's like a two-three stage process.
